Comments on: it was for freedom, from myself and from the land http://blog.lantius.org/index.php/2006/12/29/it-was-for-freedom-from-myself-and-from-the-land/ objective: domination. Sun, 23 Nov 2008 00:21:22 -0800 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.4 hourly 1 By: kelli lu http://blog.lantius.org/index.php/2006/12/29/it-was-for-freedom-from-myself-and-from-the-land/comment-page-1/#comment-4283 kelli lu Wed, 03 Jan 2007 14:32:13 +0000 http://blog.lantius.org/index.php/2006/12/29/it-was-for-freedom-from-myself-and-from-the-land/#comment-4283 great post, by the way - made me think. thanks for that. great post, by the way – made me think. thanks for that.

]]> By: kelli lu http://blog.lantius.org/index.php/2006/12/29/it-was-for-freedom-from-myself-and-from-the-land/comment-page-1/#comment-4282 kelli lu Wed, 03 Jan 2007 14:30:54 +0000 http://blog.lantius.org/index.php/2006/12/29/it-was-for-freedom-from-myself-and-from-the-land/#comment-4282 hey, found your blog via mightymaggie... was just reading on the train this morning in a book, "blue like jazz," where the author wrestles with this for about a chapter. his conclusion is like yours, that if one looks honestly at one's heart, the inclinations are not for good but for sin. you have to train a child to be good; if you leave him to his own devices, he will not be inherently loving and self-less, he will seek his own good at the expense of others' -- all of us do. i think there is no healthier place to be, in terms of seeing ourselves, than right there -- because viewing the depths of our own depravity stretches our capacity to see the love and perfection in the sin-covering sacrifice of Christ (and the glory of the Father Who sent Him). hey, found your blog via mightymaggie…
was just reading on the train this morning in a book, “blue like jazz,” where the author wrestles with this for about a chapter. his conclusion is like yours, that if one looks honestly at one’s heart, the inclinations are not for good but for sin. you have to train a child to be good; if you leave him to his own devices, he will not be inherently loving and self-less, he will seek his own good at the expense of others’ — all of us do.

i think there is no healthier place to be, in terms of seeing ourselves, than right there — because viewing the depths of our own depravity stretches our capacity to see the love and perfection in the sin-covering sacrifice of Christ (and the glory of the Father Who sent Him).

]]> By: lantius http://blog.lantius.org/index.php/2006/12/29/it-was-for-freedom-from-myself-and-from-the-land/comment-page-1/#comment-4027 lantius Sat, 30 Dec 2006 01:49:07 +0000 http://blog.lantius.org/index.php/2006/12/29/it-was-for-freedom-from-myself-and-from-the-land/#comment-4027 <em>accumulation</em> is definitely a better term than growth. i think you are absolutely correct in stating that \"our ugly moments define us\" and that these things become part of our permanent identity, albeit in a negative sense. i think that concept actually informs my context a little better. i was not thinking of this revelation in terms of external absolution, though it is relevant. instead i was thinking of the fact that we desire to know people and to be known by them, to have others understand who we are at a deep level. so much of that is, as you have noted, integrated with this darkness that we are so reluctant to reveal. even more so, that too is tangled up with condemnation/absolution interface we have with each other. accumulation is definitely a better term than growth.

i think you are absolutely correct in stating that \”our ugly moments define us\” and that these things become part of our permanent identity, albeit in a negative sense.

i think that concept actually informs my context a little better. i was not thinking of this revelation in terms of external absolution, though it is relevant. instead i was thinking of the fact that we desire to know people and to be known by them, to have others understand who we are at a deep level. so much of that is, as you have noted, integrated with this darkness that we are so reluctant to reveal. even more so, that too is tangled up with condemnation/absolution interface we have with each other.

]]> By: baoke http://blog.lantius.org/index.php/2006/12/29/it-was-for-freedom-from-myself-and-from-the-land/comment-page-1/#comment-4017 baoke Fri, 29 Dec 2006 22:31:29 +0000 http://blog.lantius.org/index.php/2006/12/29/it-was-for-freedom-from-myself-and-from-the-land/#comment-4017 Let me also add that you're a hell of a guy, Lee. Like I said before, occasional bad spots don't take away from that - they prove it, and cast all the goodwill you've got and the beneficence that you've shown in an even better light. Let me also add that you’re a hell of a guy, Lee. Like I said before, occasional bad spots don’t take away from that – they prove it, and cast all the goodwill you’ve got and the beneficence that you’ve shown in an even better light.

]]> By: baoke http://blog.lantius.org/index.php/2006/12/29/it-was-for-freedom-from-myself-and-from-the-land/comment-page-1/#comment-4011 baoke Fri, 29 Dec 2006 21:17:42 +0000 http://blog.lantius.org/index.php/2006/12/29/it-was-for-freedom-from-myself-and-from-the-land/#comment-4011 Holy shit, that got long. Holy shit, that got long.

]]> By: baoke http://blog.lantius.org/index.php/2006/12/29/it-was-for-freedom-from-myself-and-from-the-land/comment-page-1/#comment-4010 baoke Fri, 29 Dec 2006 21:16:52 +0000 http://blog.lantius.org/index.php/2006/12/29/it-was-for-freedom-from-myself-and-from-the-land/#comment-4010 For what it's worth, I only think the darkness "grows" in the more disturbed or fractured of us. It would be fair to say that it "accumulates", in the sense that as we grow older, we acquire new instances of behavior that we're ashamed of. But it is the act of reflection and repulsion, and ultimately acceptance of our lower moments and qualities that marks a moral person. Were we all to lower our masks, there would be repulsion, and also acceptance, likely in equal measure. However, the impulse to bare all is more often than not motivated by selfish desires - a desire to have our worst parts and deeds exonerated and forgiven, thereby robbing us of the burden of carrying them. A morally complete person doesn't truly wish to be relieved of his or her sins - we may wish to have never committed the act or thought in the first place - but their fallout is how we judge ourselves in the present and better ourselves in the future. If you can bear to look at your soul in the mirror, and harvest the good from the darkness, it will never grow, or blacken your heart, it will serve you. Our ugly moments define us more than our bright ones, because they are what give us the drive and reason to do better; to define ourselves in opposition to them, and to gain from that opposition the strength of character to do good, now that we know how destructive wrong can be. You can't ask for that kind of strength from someone else, you have to exude it through your own self definition. That doesn't mean that there shouldn't be sharing, but there is a part of the idea that we need external absolution that is a 'taking' impulse. We must be more prepared to give, and be willing and able to deal with out own darkness, and then others, strengthened by the love and light we give off, will help us in turn. For what it’s worth, I only think the darkness “grows” in the more disturbed or fractured of us. It would be fair to say that it “accumulates”, in the sense that as we grow older, we acquire new instances of behavior that we’re ashamed of. But it is the act of reflection and repulsion, and ultimately acceptance of our lower moments and qualities that marks a moral person. Were we all to lower our masks, there would be repulsion, and also acceptance, likely in equal measure. However, the impulse to bare all is more often than not motivated by selfish desires – a desire to have our worst parts and deeds exonerated and forgiven, thereby robbing us of the burden of carrying them. A morally complete person doesn’t truly wish to be relieved of his or her sins – we may wish to have never committed the act or thought in the first place – but their fallout is how we judge ourselves in the present and better ourselves in the future. If you can bear to look at your soul in the mirror, and harvest the good from the darkness, it will never grow, or blacken your heart, it will serve you. Our ugly moments define us more than our bright ones, because they are what give us the drive and reason to do better; to define ourselves in opposition to them, and to gain from that opposition the strength of character to do good, now that we know how destructive wrong can be. You can’t ask for that kind of strength from someone else, you have to exude it through your own self definition. That doesn’t mean that there shouldn’t be sharing, but there is a part of the idea that we need external absolution that is a ‘taking’ impulse. We must be more prepared to give, and be willing and able to deal with out own darkness, and then others, strengthened by the love and light we give off, will help us in turn.

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